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Debate: Is Trump-Putin Summit a “Danger to America” or Crucial Diplomacy Between Nuclear Powers?

Debate: Is Trump-Putin Summit a “Danger to America” or Crucial Diplomacy Between Nuclear Powers?

AMY GOODMAN: Here on Democracy Now!,,
the war and peace report. I’m Amy Goodman. President Trump holding a summit with Russian
President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki, Finland, today, beginning with a one-on-one, 90-minute
meeting, only their translators attending the meeting with them. Putin kept Trump waiting for the summit by
landing in Finland about an hour late. This morning, Trump and Putin made a statement
at a photo op before their private meeting in which Trump said he and Putin would discuss
China, trade and nuclear weapons. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I think we have great
opportunities together as two countries, that, frankly, we have not been getting along very
well for the last number of years. I’ve been here not too long, but it’s
getting close to two years. But I think we will end up having an extraordinary
relationship. I hope so. I’ve been saying—and I’m sure you’ve
heard—over the years, and as I campaigned, that getting along with Russia is a good thing,
not a bad thing. … And I really think the world wants to
see us get along. We are the two great nuclear powers. We have 90 percent of the nuclear. And that’s not a good thing, it’s a bad
thing. And I think we hopefully can do something
about that, because it’s not a positive force, it’s a negative force. So we’ll be talking about that, among other
things. AMY GOODMAN: President Trump faces pressure
to confront Putin over Kremlin meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, after
a grand jury indicted 12 Russian intelligence officers for their alleged role in hacking
email accounts controlled by the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s
campaign. Before today’s meeting, Trump tweeted he
blamed poor relations between the U.S. and Russia on Justice Department’s probe, writing,
“Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S. foolishness
and stupidity and now, the Rigged Witch Hunt!” Trump also tweeted, “President Obama thought
[that] Crooked Hillary was going to win the election, so when he was informed by the FBI
about Russian Meddling, he said it couldn’t happen, was no big deal, & did NOTHING about
it.” In an interview at Trump’s golf course in
Turnberry, Scotland, that aired Sunday, he told CBS [Evening News] anchor Jeff Glor what
he expects from his meeting with Putin. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I go in with very
low expectations. I think that getting along with Russia is
a good thing, but it’s possible we won’t. I think we’re greatly hampered by this whole
witch hunt that’s going on in the United States, the Russian witch hunt. JEFF GLOR: The Russians who were indicted,
would you ask Putin to—to send them here? PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, I might. I hadn’t thought of that, but I certainly—I’ll
be asking about it. But, again, this was during the Obama administration. They were doing whatever it was during the
Obama administration. AMY GOODMAN: For more, we are hosting a debate. In Washington, D.C., we’re joined right
now by Joe Cirincione, president of Ploughshares Fund, a global security foundation, author
of Nuclear Nightmares: Securing the World Before It Is Too Late and Bomb Scare: The
History and Future of Nuclear Weapons, his recent Defense One article headlined “A
No-Cost, No-Brainer of a Nuclear Deal.” Joining us from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, Glenn
Greenwald, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, one of the founding editors of The Intercept,
recently returned from a trip from Russia, where he met with NSA whistleblower Edward
Snowden. He tweeted a photo of them together with a
caption reading “So excited to reunite today with one of this generation’s greatest whistleblowers
and my colleague in defense of press freedoms, Edward Snowden.” We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Joe Cirincione, you’re deeply concerned
about nuclear weapons, about the nuclear arms race. Do you think this meeting, this summit that
Trump has called in Helsinki, is a good thing? JOE CIRINCIONE: No, I do not. This is a danger to America and to the West. This is without precedent in modern American
history. We have never had an American leader that
was this weak, this obsequious towards a murdering tyrant like Vladimir Putin. Both of these gentlemen have terrible records
on freedom of the press, on encouraging a participation in the rule of their countries. There is one good thing, and only one good
thing, that I could see that could come out of this meeting, and that is the extension
of the New START agreement, the agreement that limits U.S. and Russian strategic nuclear
forces. We’ve been limiting these forces since Richard
Nixon agreed to do so in 1972. This deal expires in 2021. If those limits come off, we will not only
be in an arms race, which we now are, but we will be in an arms race without guide rails,
without limits, without any kind of structured talks to limit the arms race. That is the only good thing that could come
out of this summit. AMY GOODMAN: Glenn Greenwald, good or bad,
the summit? And what do you want to see come out of this? GLENN GREENWALD: I think it’s excellent. And I would just cite two historical examples. In 2007, during the Democratic presidential
debate, Barack Obama was asked whether he would meet with the leaders of North Korea,
Cuba, Venezuela, Syria and Iran without preconditions. He said he would. Hillary Clinton said she wouldn’t, because
it would be used as a propaganda tool for repressive dictators. And liberals celebrated Obama. It was one of his greatest moments and one
of the things that I think helped him to win the Democratic nomination, based on the theory
that it’s always better to meet with leaders, even if they’re repressive, than to isolate
them or to ignore them. In 1987, when President Reagan decided that
he wanted to meet with Soviet leaders, the far right took out ads against him that sounded
very much just like what we just heard from Joe, accusing him of being a useful idiot
to Soviet and Kremlin propaganda, of legitimizing Russian aggression and domestic repression
at home. It is true that Putin is an authoritarian
and is domestically repressive. That’s true of many of the closest allies
of the United States, as well, who are even far more repressive, including ones that fund
most of the think tanks in D.C., such as the United Arab Emirates or Saudi Arabia. And I think the most important issue is the
one that we just heard, which is that 90 percent of the world’s nuclear weapons are in the
hands of two countries—the United States and Russia—and having them speak and get
along is much better than having them isolate one another and increase the risk of not just
intentional conflict, but misperception and miscommunication, as well. AMY GOODMAN: Joe Cirincione, your response? Your banner says “Ploughshares Fund: Building
a Future Free of Nuclear Threats.” Why not support a conversation between the
people who are in control of, well, essentially, the nuclear trigger in the world? JOE CIRINCIONE: Right. Let’s be clear. Glenn, there’s nothing wrong with meeting. I agree with you. Leaders should meet, and we should be negotiating
with our foes, with those people we disagree with. We’re better off when we do that. And the kind of attacks you saw on Barack
Obama were absolutely uncalled for, and you’re right to condemn those. What I’m worried about is this president
meeting with this leader of Russia and what they’re going to do. That’s what’s so wrong about this summit
coming now, when you have Donald Trump, who just attacked the NATO alliance, who calls
our European allies foes, who turns a blind eye to what his director of national intelligence
called the warning lights that are blinking red. About what? About Russian interference in our elections. So you just had a leader of Russia, Putin,
a skilled tactician, a skilled strategist, interfere in a U.S. election. To what? To help elect Donald Trump. And you now have Donald Trump coming to meet
with him, which is essentially a staff meeting for Vladimir Putin. To do what? To excuse all this behavior, to deride America
for the bad relations between Russia and the United States. He’s airbrushing away everything that Putin
has done over the last five years, from shooting down a Malaysian airliner, MH17, to murdering
people in the U.K., to cyberinterference in the U.S. democracy, to his murderous assault
in Syria. He’s just excusing all that away. For what? For what gain? The only thing we can get out of this is the
extension of New START, but we don’t need a summit to do that. Vladimir Putin offered to do that in his very
first phone call, in February 2017, with Donald Trump. Donald Trump didn’t know what he was talking
about. He had to put the phone on hold, according
to staff members who were there, ask his staff what this treaty was, and then he got back
on the line and blasted the treaty as being one-sided, “another Obama giveaway,” he
said. Yes, extend New START. But the price of the other—what’s going
on here, that what we might get out of this, this excusing of Vladimir Putin’s behavior,
what many people think is the greatest threat to American democracy in decades? No, it’s not worth the cost. AMY GOODMAN: Glenn Greenwald, your response? GLENN GREENWALD: So, I mean, I think this
kind of rhetoric is so unbelievably unhinged, the idea that the phishing links sent to John
Podesta and the Democratic National Committee are the greatest threat to American democracy
in decades. People are now talking about it as though
it’s on par with 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, that the lights are blinking red, in terms of the
threat level. This is lunacy, this kind of talk. I spent years reading through the most top-secret
documents of the NSA, and I can tell you that not only do they send phishing links to Russian
agencies of every type continuously on a daily basis, but do far more aggressive interference
in the cybersecurity of every single country than Russia is accused of having done during
the 2016 election. To characterize this as some kind of grave
existential threat to American democracy is exactly the kind of rhetoric that we heard
throughout the Bush-Cheney administration about what al-Qaeda was like. And I would just remind everybody, as well,
that if you look at Russia’s—at the United States’s Russia policy during the administration
of Barack Obama—look at what he did and said. In 2012, he mocked the idea, spread by Mitt
Romney, that Russia was our greatest existential foe. Yes, that was before Crimea, but it was after
Georgia. It was after they were accused of murdering
dissidents and imprisoning journalists. He mocked that idea and said we have all kinds
of reasons to try and get along with Russia. Even after 2016, after Crimea, after he was
told that the Russians interfered in the U.S. election, he didn’t talk about it as 9/11
or treat it like 9/11. He expelled a few Russian diplomats and urged
everybody to keep it in perspective, and said that Russia is the seventh- or eighth-largest
economy in the world, behind even Italy, and not a grave threat to the United States. This kind of talk, this kind of climate, it’s
amazing. Joe’s work is something I vehemently support,
which is eliminating the threat of nuclear weapons. Yes, it’d be great if we had better leaders,
but the leaders of the countries that have 90 percent of the nuclear stockpile happen
to be Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. That’s not going to change. So the question is not “Do we wish we had
better leaders?” The question is “Do we want these two countries
trying to talk and resolve their differences peacefully, or do we want them isolating one
another and feeling besieged and belligerent and attacked, which heightens all the tensions
that Joe has devoted his career to combating?” And I think it’s much better to have the
kind of dialogue that Barack Obama advocated with Russia than the kind of belligerence
that Democrats now demand of our government. AMY GOODMAN: Joe Cirincione, do you find it
unusual that you are—you know, you share the same views right now, for example, as
Dan Coats? When the—as the Russian indictments were
coming down, the Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats raised the alarm on growing cyberattack
threats, saying the situation is at a critical point, coming out forcefully against Russia. This is President Trump’s national intelligence
director. He said, “The warning signs are there. The system is blinking. It is why I believe we are at a critical point.” Joe? JOE CIRINCIONE: Yeah. Well, let me say where I agree with Glenn. I agreement that many Democrats are trying
to get to the right of Donald Trump on lots of issues—for example, on North Korea. And you see them trying to out-macho Donald
Trump, and that is dangerous. And, of course, I support dialogue. I think the only solution to a lot of these
issues, whether it’s nuclear arms control or Syria or the Korean Peninsula, is diplomacy. There are no military solutions to these issues. What worries me here is not just what Russia
is doing, not just its cyberattacks, not just its efforts to splinter the NATO alliance. What worries me is that Trump is cooperating
with these, that we’re not fighting back, that in the almost two years, as the president
points out, that he’s been in office, he has not once taken a step to counter the cyberattacks
that Russia perpetuates on a—to quote the director of national intelligence—a daily
basis on the United States. He’s not doing anything. He’s opening the doors. And that’s what worries me about this meeting. It’s not quite—and I—it’s not Neville
Chamberlain in Munich appeasing Hitler, but it’s on that spectrum. You have the leader of the country going in
an obsequious posture towards Putin, excusing everything he’s doing, basically brushing
it away, saying, “It’s OK. I don’t care about your attacks. Your attacks on electoral process, it’s
OK with me. I agree with you that European Union is a
threat,” these kinds of things. That’s what’s so worrying. Glenn is right: Russia alone is a small country,
economy about the size of Italy, less organized than Italy’s economy. It’s strong on a periphery. It’s not a global threat. But this stuff? This cyberwarfare? This is a threat to us, and it’s only going
to get worse, unless we fight back, unless we take the kinds of steps we need to protect
our country. President Trump is not only not doing that,
he’s actively cooperating with Putin to promote these kinds of attacks on democracies
all over the world. AMY GOODMAN: So, Glenn, right now President
Trump has, you know, repeated what President Putin says, that he denies that he was doing
any cyberattacks on the United States, but at the same time Trump blames the Democratic
Party, says they should have protected—you know, that the DNC and the DCCC should have
protected their cyberspace more. GLENN GREENWALD: Well, first of all, you know,
in terms of what Joe just said, it’s really not true that the U.S. is doing nothing about
the threat posed to cyberwarfare. We spend $70 billion every year on the intelligence
budget, a large portion of which is spent by the NSA on how to fortify computer systems
and to prevent those kinds of attacks. You know, it is true that if you see what
the Russians allegedly did in 2016 as some kind of 9/11-style attack on the U.S., that
does get pinned on President Obama. He was the president at the time, which means
he allowed it to happen on his watch, that kind of an attack. And he also had six months in office where
he did very little in response, except expel a few diplomats and impose some sanctions,
because he didn’t treat it like some grave attack on American democracy, but it’s the
kind of thing that these two countries have been doing to one another for decades. And I agree with him completely. And let me just say, I do not think that—this
idea that if you meet with a leader, it means that you’re legitimizing all of their abuses. I mean, again, look at Washington. Joe just worked for and just left ThinkProgress,
which is affiliated with the Center for American Progress, that takes money from one of the
most repressive regimes on the planet, the United Arab Emirates. And when he left, he cited that kind of money
drowning Washington as a reason. We deal with regimes all the time that are
incredibly repressive. The United States government is often repressive. We destroyed Iraq. We set up a worldwide torture regime. We still have a prison in Guantánamo where
people have been imprisoned for 17 years on an island with no trial. We have to deal with other countries who violate
human rights. Our own governments deal with human rights—abuse
human rights. And I think to look at dialogue with other
countries as legitimizing human rights is the kind of rhetoric that the right used for
seven decades to delegitimize attempts to reach peaceful negotiations with the Soviet
Union. And that is what I worry about. I actually think that Joe and I are largely
in agreement on most of these questions, with the exception of how to look at what happened
in 2016. And I think it’s time that we move past
2016, fortify our computer systems, try and of course have cyberdefenses, like we’re
already doing, but instead of looking at the world through the 2016 election, look at it
through The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists’ Doomsday Clock, that is now at two minutes
before midnight, the worst rating since 1953 for the threat to humanity, largely because
of the threat of nuclear weapons, along with climate change, that is in the hands of these
two countries. And let’s hope for more and more and more
dialogue between Russia and the United States, and move away from the rhetoric that says
it’s treasonous or dangerous for us to meet and talk and have dialogue. AMY GOODMAN: So, Joe, that point, that you
are not condoning your opponent when you have a meeting? JOE CIRINCIONE: No, not necessarily. But Donald Trump is, with this meeting. He is praising Vladimir Putin. I actually think the protesters in Finland
have this just about right. Both of these men are dangerous. Both of these men oppress basic human rights,
basic freedoms. Both of them think the press are the enemy
of the people. Putin goes further: He kills journalists. He has them assassinated on the streets of
Moscow. Donald Trump does not go that far yet. But I think what Putin is doing is using the
president of the United States to project his rule, to increase his power, to carry
out his agenda in Syria, with Europe, etc., and that Trump is acquiescing to that, for
reasons that are not yet clear. There is a very mysterious and suspicious
relationship that Trump has with Putin. He has never attacked him. This is the guy that just undermined the Conservative
prime minister of the United Kingdom. This is the guy that refused to sign the statement
of the G7. But he has never once criticized Putin for
anything. What’s going on there? I wish Glenn would use some of his investigative
powers to find out what the real story is. What does Putin have on Trump? That’s what worries me. In the course of this— GLENN GREENWALD: Amy, can I address that? Can I address that? JOE CIRINCIONE: —can they just—yes, please. AMY GOODMAN: Yes. JOE CIRINCIONE: This is my final statement. In the course of this, can we get an arms
control agreement that can at least extend New START? Yes. Do I expect either one of these guys to seriously
disarm, to seriously reduce their about 6,000 nuclear weapons that each side has? No, I do not. I think both of these men think of these things
as instruments of great power status and are not going to shed them without tremendous
global pressure to do so. AMY GOODMAN: Glenn Greenwald, do you think
Putin has something on Trump? GLENN GREENWALD: No, I mean, I’ll believe
that when I see evidence for it. So let me just make two points. Number one is, if you look at President Obama
versus President Trump, there’s no question that President Obama was more cooperative
with and collaborative with Russia and the Russian agenda than President Trump. President Trump has sent lethal arms to Ukraine—a
crucial issue for Putin—which President Obama refused to do. President Trump has bombed the Assad forces
in Syria, a client state of Putin, something that Obama refused to do because he didn’t
want to provoke Putin. Trump has expelled more Russian diplomats
and sanctioned more Russian oligarchs than [Obama] has. Trump undid the Iran deal, which Russia favored,
while Obama worked with Russia in order to do the Iran deal. So this idea that Trump is some kind of a
puppet of Putin, that he controls him with blackmail, is the kind of stuff that you believe
if you read too many Tom Clancy novels, but isn’t borne out by the facts. The other issue that I want to make is that,
you know, again, this idea that somehow that you are endorsing the repression of other
countries’ leaders if you meet with them—it is true that Trump has never criticized Putin,
although he has taken all the steps I just outlined against Putin. But he’s also never criticized Benjamin
Netanyahu. He’s also never criticized the incredibly
repressive leaders of Saudi Arabia. He’s never criticized the fascist president
of the Philippines. It is true President Trump likes fascist and
authoritarian leaders, and that is a problem, but it’s not like Putin is the only leader
that he doesn’t criticize. But what he has been consistent about for
a long time—and this is something that Joe himself recently said, that I agree with completely—is
that a lot of these international institutions that are supposed to be off limits from criticism,
like free trade organizations, the World Trade Organization, NATO, the EU, have devastated
the working-class populations of multiple countries. And if we want to understand why we have a
Donald Trump and why we have a resurgent “alt-right” throughout Europe and why we have Brexit,
we need to start asking questions about whether or not these institutions, that have been
so sacred for so long, are actually ones that are serving the interest of our country. And until we figure out how to solve the root
causes that have given rise to Trumpism and to fascist extremism in Europe and in the
country I live in, Brazil, which is that these institutions are destroying the economic future
of tens of millions and hundreds of millions of people in order to benefit the rich, we’re
just going to have more Trumps, no matter how much we kick our feet and call him names. And that, I think is the issue that is most
being ignored by all of this rhetoric. AMY GOODMAN: Listen, we have to go to break. It’s really hard to do that, but we’re
going to break for 30 seconds. And when we come back—Glenn, you just got
back from Russia. There are a number of Democrats—I’m not
just talking Republicans, mainly Democrats—who are saying Trump should have done what Obama
did, and that’s cancel this meeting with Putin once the indictments came out. And they’re citing the precedent of Obama
in 2013 when Putin gave Edward Snowden political asylum. Obama canceled their meeting. You just came back from visiting Snowden. I’d like to ask you about that and also
get Joe Cirincione’s view. This is Democracy Now! Our guests are Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist
Glenn Greenwald and Joe Cirincione, president of Ploughshares Fund. Stay with us. [break] AMY GOODMAN: “Police State” by Pussy Riot,
who protested President Putin this weekend at the World Cup. Massive protests in Helsinki, as there were
throughout Europe, with President Trump coming. Also at his struggling Turnberry golf course
in Scotland, the protests were there, with a paraglider saying Trump is below par, flying
over Trump as he was outside at his golf course. This is Democracy Now!, as we host a debate
between Joe Cirincione of the Ploughshares Fund, president of the Ploughshares Fund,
and Glenn Greenwald, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, one of the co-founders of The
Intercept. Now, in past years, Joe and Glenn would probably
not be debating in fierce combat over an issue. It is fascinating to see the realliances that
are taking place right now. Now, Glenn, this issue of Democrats calling
on Trump to have canceled the summit, which is already underway, saying Obama canceled
a summit with Putin in 2013 when he gave Edward Snowden political asylum in Moscow. You just came back from visiting Ed Snowden. Can you talk about what’s happening with
Ed Snowden right now? The focus of the Helsinki protests, one of
the main themes, with these 300 billboards, was freedom of the press. What do you want to happen? I don’t think you would share President
Trump’s views on Ed Snowden. GLENN GREENWALD: No, nor did I share President
Obama’s views on Edward Snowden. He wanted to put Edward Snowden in prison
for many decades and actually took down the plane of a sovereign president of a country,
Bolivia, because he thought, mistakenly, that Edward Snowden might be on that plane. You know, and I just want to say, I mean,
I really admire Joe still. I support most of his work, and I think we
are in agreement on most issues, though there is an interesting realignment taking place
that I think deserves a lot more attention. But let me just say this about the press freedom,
because Joe brought it up, as well. You know, a lot of times when people talk
about Trump’s attacks on press freedom, they talk about his rhetoric, his mean tweets
about Wolf Blitzer and Chuck Todd, and his criticisms of the media. I don’t think that those are meaningful
attacks on press freedom. I think what are meaningful attacks on press
freedom are investigations into the work that journalists do with sources, in the attempt
to imprison sources for giving journalists information that belong in the public domain. We at The Intercept have had two of our alleged
sources the subject of investigations by the Justice Department, including one of whom
who is now in prison. And my colleague Jim Risen, who the Obama
administration threatened with prison for many years, wrote an op-ed in The New York
Times after Trump was elected, saying if Trump ends up being able to attack press freedom,
it will be because—due to the infrastructure that Obama created, this obsession with investigating
and prosecuting and imprisoning sources, like my source, Edward Snowden, under the espionage
statutes. And, of course, the Obama Justice Department
prosecuted more sources under the espionage statute—in fact, three times as many—than
all previous administrations combined. That, to me, is a real threat to press freedom,
not some insults on Twitter, that Donald Trump is now taking advantage of. And so, yeah, the idea of canceling a summit
between two nuclear-armed powers because Putin gave asylum to somebody who was a source for
Pulitzer Prize-winning exposés that people all around the world view as heroic and important,
I think, was insanity also and shows that the roots of the attacks of press freedom
that we now see from Donald Trump have their origins in the Obama administration, just
as Jim Risen said. AMY GOODMAN: And the Snowden refugees, as
The Guardian talks about them, those that harbored, that sheltered Ed Snowden to protect
him in Hong Kong before he made his way out of the country, now facing possible return
to Sri Lanka? They’re appealing that decision. Very briefly. We only have a minute. GLENN GREENWALD: Yeah, I mean, it’s a terrible
humanitarian story. I hope people pay attention to it. They deserve asylum, not because of the random
connection they had to Snowden, though they did hide him and house him during the time
he was hiding in Hong Kong, but because they’re refugees who face serious threats if they’re
returned home. And civilized countries grant asylum to people
who face persecution. Whether it’s Edward Snowden or the refugees
that are at the border now in the South of the United States or these refugees in Hong
Kong, they deserve protection. AMY GOODMAN: Joe Cirincione, as we wrap up—and
we’re going to continue this discussion in Part 2, so folks should not go away—but
your thoughts on Ed Snowden? Should he be allowed to come back to this
country? Do you hail him as a whistleblower? JOE CIRINCIONE: This is outside my area. I mean, I admire some of the things that these
whistleblowers have done in disclosing the kind of surveillance that our own government
is conducting on us and the kinds of techniques they’re doing in secret. I believe we do need more sunshine on these. But I also believe that WikiLeaks was clearly
used by Russian military and intelligence sources, directed by Vladimir Putin, to disrupt
the 2016 election and help elect a president of the United States that is probably the
worst president we’ve ever had in our lives, and may lead us down a path of self-isolation
from the world and weaken our national security. So, yes, I think WikiLeaks played an insidious
role in that. I don’t know whether they knew who they
were dealing with, but that has—we’ve got to talk about that. And we have to understand that sometimes our
anger at our own government in the things that we do— AMY GOODMAN: Glenn, five seconds? JOE CIRINCIONE: —can lead us down a very
dangerous path. AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going to have to
leave it there, but we’re not going to leave it out. We’re going to—go to
for the rest of this discussion. I want to thank Glenn Greenwald, as well as
Joe Cirincione of the Ploughshares Fund. Thanks for joining us.

100 comments on “Debate: Is Trump-Putin Summit a “Danger to America” or Crucial Diplomacy Between Nuclear Powers?

  1. Joe Circinone Deep State operative, hypocrite, taking money from Saudi Arabia a repressive regimen but wagging his finger at Trump and makes contradiciting statments. Glen Grenwald thanks for mopping the floor with this guy.

  2. Trump & Putin are planning a 2nd "STEAL the ELECTION interference" in the 2018 elections. This the reason for the time of year, Fall/Autumn, Putin will supposedly be coming here!

  3. It's painful to think that the worlds security is based on a country with morons like Joe Cirincione trying to influence the government. It's frightening to think that he thinks Donald trump is Putin's puppet. The biggest aggressors at this moment are the America and the West not Russia. As the saying goes action speaks louder than words and if you look at who and what geoplitical actions are being taken it's the West that's being the aggressor not Russia.

  4. Trumps orange face is just too creepy…..With those white circles around his eyes it looks like a "leatherface" mask

  5. Arriving late? An hour late? You do know that's a dominance move … you keep your lackey waiting to tell him he's your cyka…

  6. The greatest threat to American democracy is the big money influencing our elections and the choices made by our politicians.

  7. I caution against any more fear-mongering and warmongering coming from our government, intelligence agencies, Madeleine Albright, etc. The last thing we need is to be manipulated by fear into yet another war, with Russia or any other country.

  8. Who'd have thought we could have a president worse than George W. Bush (aka Dick Cheney)!! Trump is horrible in many ways, but I'm not sure he's "worse" than Bush/Cheney, who intentionally lied us into endless "wars" (aka invasions and occupations of sovereign nations) and spent huge amounts of taxpayer dollars (plus tons of borrowed money that our kids will somehow have to repay) on those wars and on setting up the whole "Dept. of Homeland Security." As long as we have war criminals running around with no accountability, and old familiar faces beating new drums for war (including Madeleine Albright), and massive military industrial complex money corrupting our politicians, we will have more of this miserable lack of leadership and lack of representation.

  9. Do I even need to keep listening to this debate after the first time Glenn is done speaking? Idk if I want to hear that first guy start talking again anyways.

  10. This election meddling story didn’t start with Putin/Trump. With this McFaul guy who served as U.S. ambassador to Russia from 2012 to 2014, the Russian know he, McFaul meddled in a their election in 2013 and wants to make a point by interviewing him. The CIA has meddled in foreign election for years and in 2016 we got Blowback.

  11. Glenn is echoing common sense that practically everyone with an ounce of intelligence knows and understands but for some bizarre reason the vast majority of Americans in control of the rhetoric refuses to even acknowledge.

  12. Joe Cringy-one is mad – a raving lunatic.
    Glenn is an island of reason in this stormy sea of stupidity.

  13. With the name Joe Cirincione, you could not be more south Italian than that. Make Americans happy, lets have world war 3, why not?

  14. We need to focus back on the baby jails and the baby black sites. Those children are being sexually assualted, drugged, and generally abused and our tax dollars are paying these ICE sadists to do it.

  15. This guy Joe is deluded like all the DNC liberals who spout this cold war nonsense. Also every reason given as to why this meeting could be construed to be treasonous, is a load of propaganda legitimised by the MSM. Pathetic nonsense fromTrump haters

  16. I enjoy the twisted logic that criticizes Trump for disrespecting the USA intelligence community whilst simultaneously claiming that the USA intelligence community is so inept that they allowed a supposed "Russian Puppet" to claim the White House.

  17. For 30 years We were told how "dangerous" it would be to recognize China. Now even my underwear is made in China.

  18. Glenn Greenwald doesn't think rhetoric is important? I think it is very important!! Of course it's not the same as taking action, two different things, but rhetoric is what made Trump president, isn't it?

  19. Russia meddling in the election is B.S from the beginning. The FBI never even got a glimpse of the the DNC servers as it was all done by Crowdstrike a firm hired by the DNC. It would have a lot more credibility if the FBI had of looked at the servers themselves and not outsourced the investigation to Crowdstrike. There are a lot of Cyber experts who doubt that Crowdstrike could even tell who was responsible for the the supposed hack as outlined in the following article.

  20. Joe Cirincione say ""both these men say the press is the enemy of the people "" Trump refers to fake news and indeed the MSM has been associated with the CIA since the late 1960's
    The Church committee looked into this in the mid 1970's and you can bet the relationship is far worse today
    Also the hatred of Trump could be associated with the number of MSM people who are related to people involved with the O Bama administration.

    CBS President David Rhodes is the brother of Obama's former Deputy Communication Advisor Ben Rhodes.
    ABC News President Ben Sherwood is the brother of Obama's former Special Advisor Elizabeth Sherwood.
    ABC News Correspondent Claire Shipman is married to Obama's former Whitehouse Press Secretary Jay Carnie.
    CNN Vice President Virginia Moseley is married to Hillary Clinton's former Deputy Secretary of State Tom Nides.
    ABC News and Univision reporter Mattew Jafe is married to Obama's former Deputy Press Secretary Katie Hogan.
    ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, Obama's former Natl Security Advisor.

  21. The intelligence community just cant deal with the elephant in the American living room… (: 911 (:

  22. I would still like to see evidence of actual collusion.

    Even progressives have broken under the weight of corporate-state propaganda on this narrative. If Russia wasn’t conducting cyber espionage against Americans, especially those in positions of power, we would be shocked. Not only have we wiretapped UN officials and leaders of friendly nations like Angela Merkel, but we have overthrown governments in the past two administrations. I don’t know what counts for interference, if “regime change” doesn’t.

    Have we passed laws to secure voter data? Have we instituted a paper ballot nationwide, the only unhackable vote technology? Have we taken constructive steps outside of censorship and McCarthyite bloviating that ratchets up tensions? No. Pretty much no. They indicted people for unrelated offenses and some Russian operatives that will never see an American courtroom.

  23. The reason for the killings in Russia and attaching Crimea in Ukraine in the past 10 years is due to lack of dialog with US not anything else…relationship with Russia is good for the world…and the Russians.


  25. Little Joe, the US has N0 allies, 0NLY Vassals*, you must think *all of America is stupid, silly..!! 😂

  26. The only one running in the “arms race” is the US. We spend more on our military than the next 10 industrial nations combined.

  27. Joe Cirincione is an embarrassment: he trots out the grocery list of Clinton-CIA accusations against Putin/Russia – shooting down the MH-17, 'Russian election interference (no evidence ever shown), trying to murder the Skripals, and 'Trump is president because of what the Russians did'. The Democracy Now producers got the perfect Clinton-CIA-corporate media stooge in a nutshell for Greenwald to take down, and he most certainly did.

  28. Joe Cirincione is totally, completely full of crap about Wikileaks, i.e. this idiocy about Russia and Wikileaks stealing the 2016 election from Clinton is pure hogwash. Maybe Joe can get a job with Rachel Maddow on MSNBC? Just a suggestion, he'd fit right in.

  29. Classic GG misrepresenting the view of his opposition then using common sense arguments with good rhetoric that isn’t impressive to those expecting it.

  30. Trump himself never punished Putin, Congress did and they did it in a way to make sure Trump couldn’t veto it. And Trump was very upset that congress tied his hands. So please stop giving trump credit for anything done to Russia. It wasn’t done with his approval and that’s important to note.

  31. Joe is incoherent. His arguments are hysterical and grounded in unsubstantiated CIA/NSF bilge. He simultaneously says that Helsinki wasn't Munich, but clearly wants listeners to conclude that it's as bad or worse than Chamberlain bowing to Hitler. That shows an utter ignorance of history. Not just is it a mischaracterization of what Trump did, it tries to equate the expansionism of Nazi Germany with the self-protection of Russia. Russia has at least a century of betrayals by the West to utterly mistrust us for. That they are not provoking wars is an indication of how much they suffered in WWII (and that entailed the deaths of over 24 MILLION Russians, civilians and military), and how unwilling they are to court another war.

    It's beyond disgusting to see Trump Derangement Syndrome lead "liberals" to become neocon war hawks right before our eyes. And frightening to see how many "liberals" are channelling McCarthyism. Tail Gunner Joe, Roy Cohn, and Dick Nixon must be gloating in hell.

  32. Glenn greenwood is skewing some facts when he says trump has taken steps against Russia, the senate has passed measures but trump has been reluctant and slow to implement them. He seems to me either a useful ideologue or a disingenuous actor

  33. Wow… Democrats must hate Glenn Greenwald more than anything in the world. Virtually no one in the Western media even dares to question their insipid ideology and Glenn just tears into them without mercy.

  34. It seems that the the USA is unravelling itself as a country with showing criminality in its Govt.
    and removing its country from the Human Rights Council showing where their Moral Standards are…..Really ! While blaming everybody else for nothing and just Villafy for war Standards………It seems! Is that right what's
    Being said arround the world.

  35. If you think a summit with Russia to end the Obama Cold war is a bad thing ————- You're a fucking chicken shit moron
    Also, you're probably a democrat Hillary supporter.

  36. I agree with Glenn on the over all point that we need to talk to Russia (and all other nuclear or near nuclear powers) to plan out how many nukes we should destroy a year. But this meeting was still a bad idea, there was no reason that the president had to meet with Putin, he could have sent Secretary Mathis, and Perry with some nuclear experts. It is unlikely that the treaty is the reason that Trump went to Helsinki. Yes the U.S. is allied with countries that commit horrible atrocities but that does not mean we should add more to the list… It means we should end allied status for some of those countries. It is not crazy to state that Russia helping Donald Trump win an election is a big deal. America being a bad actor does not mean we should accept this. We should not let Donald Trump get a pass on his numerous felonies. Donald Trump has done nothing that would actually hurt Putin. He attacked Syria? He bombed an empty airfield after warning Russia. He levied sanctions? After congress forced him to do so by law with a super majority of congress. He armed militants in Ukraine? Most of the "arms" are night vision goggles, and cyber security.
    Trump has threatened to kill NATO.
    Trump has weakened international organizations such as the Human Rights Council.
    Trump has launched a trade war on our allies and key trading partners.
    He probably is not a puppet of Putin, but he is clearly not interested in doing anything to ensure that America retains its super power status which does help Russia.
    The Russian people deserve help, the Kremlin does not.
    These actions by both men will ensure that the citizens get screwed and the oligarchs get paid.

  37. Putin and Trump are the greatest threat to the Zionist Global dictatorship that's trying to take over our planet. This old fool is part of it that's the reason he is so delusional, they are losing.!!!!

  38. There is as much evidence of Putin killing journalist as there is of the Clintons killing Seth Rich.
    Journalists need to call out Putin gossip.

  39. Neocon Journalist should think about CIA Medding Election since 1953 Iran & So Many Countries & USA democracy is Hacked by Putin Or Russia. Then Result Will be Closed CIA Will not be tried for this type of Activity.

  40. So Democracy Now has really changed. Glenn Greenwald spewing his patently obvious Russian Propaganda is really disappointing. What happened to Democracy Now?
    I could have understood Greenwald making these arguments perhaps 1 year ago before so much was revealed about Russia’s cyber Attack on this country- but at this late stage to mock and call it ‘lunacy’ is to only expose Glenn Greenwald. He’s still even defending Julian Assange . Who there’s no doubt was Putins CutOut and who was personally sending direct messages to Trump Jr re support of Trump & encouraging jr to tell his father to contest the election results if Trump Lost. For GG to still be trying to peddle Assange is a Journalist – really just highlights that Mueller Probe should be all over Greenwald too. I hope he is

  41. Greenwald when you need to use Obama to say he was weaker than Trump on Russia-you completely discount reality & Facts KNOWN at the time of Obama’s term in Office & the fact that the Repubs told Obama if he did anything to warn the American People about what Russia was doing to influence our election- They would send out the RW Warriors to attack Obama saying HE was trying to influence the election for Clinton. Greenwald s Arguments only work if you are not fully aware of all the Mueller indictments & Investigative journalism that has exposed Trump Putin’s relationship for decades & the crimes going on during the election.

    Of COURSE Greenwald wants America to move past the 2016 Election/ because it’s more than clear Greenwald is being paid by Russia to influence America to move on.

    Recently Greenwalds firm was exposed as taking more than a 1/2 Million annually from Russia Associated Trump Influencers. That’s just a fact.

  42. The Left would do well to listen to liberal Greenwald but we all KNOW they won't. If the Right takes the Mid Terms we'll be well on our way to a One Party System & all due to the Dims idiocy driving Moderates straight into the GOP.

  43. The often repeated claim that 'Putin kills journalists' is a neocon lie. There is absolutely no evidence for the claim.

  44. Israel is the biggest offender of interfering in American polictics by far, I am still wating for them to mention that.

  45. Greenwald called this guy an unhinged delusional liar and laid out facts to back up his criticisms. The guy had nothing to say but then double down on his hysteria. Almost as if he's a robot regurgitating a script…and he is some sort of organization director for denuclearlization and peace? Oh please, it's all theater.

  46. If we have no war , we won't have to give the Military industry a trillion dollars a year . Lower it to 100 billion . War gives the government emergency war powers that eliminate individual rights ( The Patriot Act ). Let's use the money on medicare for all and free college. Pie in the sky or redirecting taxpayer money ??

  47. DNC was hacked due to human stupidity falling for a phishing link… what is Donald Trump supposed to do about countering that kind of “cyber attack”?

  48. Cirincione is regurgitating the permanent state globalists unhinged rhetoric . Very glad Greenwald is here to counter these lies with FACTS and the Truth in the correct context!

  49. Glenn Greenwald im really hoping you can help me and contact julian i joined up with the unity4julian group and i was victimised i wasnt on long and they said i hadnt written anything worth reading so they would have to ban me even though they said they where talking to all types of people they were texting hurtful remarks, plus i dont think these are the type of people that julian assange should really be bothered with

  50. Where is part 2 ? …this one ended with Cirincione making a sudden absurd claim that Wikileaks was used by Russia…..where is Greenwald's response ?…if he was allowed to make one ?
    Never mind…just found it…..and Greenwald's response if there was one was lost between the 2 parts.

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